breaking Kayfabe with nineteen97.

Devanté to family, Devsz to friends; there’s a delicate balancing act with creating art and sharing aspects of yourself, with so many different perspectives, whilst also maintaining a sense of privacy.

For decades, musicians have been toiling with this responsibility in varying degrees of success. Which avenue do you pursue? Keep the sides of your being separate and compartmentalised, or attempt to blend them all into a conducive concoction? Impossible? Not at all. Risky? Yes. The risk comes from losing yourself and unravelling.

The Bible says “a man with many friends is pulled apart”, and I think the same can be said for a man with multiple sides. The undoing of a person’s grip on where they start and where their persona ends can become dangerously blurred. Living in a digital world that incentivises false online identities to attract as much engagement as possible, we’re all living in what the wrestling purists call kayfabe: “the fact or convention of presenting staged performances as genuine or authentic”. It’s this soap opera wrapped in male bravado that showcases when that balance is tipped unhealthily and the man behind the wrestling mask no longer recognises his own face underneath it. 

Ahead of the release of his new project ‘CUDDABEENA*’ and hometown headline performance at Mama Roux’s, nineteen97 connects with me over a candid and discursive conversation that illuminates a compelling figure shrouded in grey smoke and brutalist sound sculptures. With a disarming self-awareness, the Coventry-born and Birmingham import reveals a side to him that was always there, nestled subtly below the minimal production and angular lyricism of modern-day Britain.

Photography by. Ola Fisayo

97: Bro, this is the project I always knew I was supposed to make. This short, concise EP, like the one thing with my projects, is that if you go back and listen to certain songs, you hear me actually mention my next project in [those] old songs.

CGuk: Oh, mad!

97: Yeah, on my 'Chrome II' project, on 'ALIVE' with Murkage Dave, there is a bar about 'Local Boyz' before I even made 'Local Boyz' public, it’s dropping seeds. And then on my 'Local Boyz' mixtape, which is my first and only mixtape, I got a song on there called '1AM' and I mentioned CUDDABEENA*, I always know what I’m going to do next. 

CGuk: It seems as though you kind of want the fans to piece all this stuff together. Is that right in assuming?

97: Yeah, and no. It’s for the fans, but it’s mainly for me, I’ll be honest. When you get to the end of a creative process, before releasing it to the world, you have your opinion and the opinion of the people, but external validation comes post-release. I know how I feel during the process, and I understood my timeline, and I knew what I was working towards past that point. Plus, I know what moves can work and which ones won’t be appreciated because I’m from the Midlands. As a student of the game, I’ve seen it all before, we’ve all seen it before! But ultimately, I’ve taken the ego out of my decision-making.

CGuk: Speaking of the Midlands, the one track that got you on my map was 'spareno1', and one thing I’m appreciative of with Creative Gen is opening my ears up to UK music, because I’ve also listened to and seen myself in music from the US, but when I heard 'spareno1', I was like, 'what the f*ck! I swear I know that accent, with growing up in Rugby'. It’s futuristic, but it’s very, very British–

97: It’s grit, we call it grit. I don’t want to say sub-genre, but to me it feels like honest black electronic music. There’s no compromising in how I feel, it’s probably not going to be put in the dance charts because the stuff I’m saying is too mad! The analogy in my head is that clip from the animated Batman series where they’re in a nightclub in Gotham, I make it for that scene. I mainly work with two producers, Love George and Off Key. I didn’t develop the style myself; it came out of conversations we had before sessions… the song that really started this was called 'outdablu', which was produced by my friend Off Key, and that was when my music started becoming really honest. I remember before we were making that song, I was listening to a lot of Burial, sonically, that’s the biggest inspiration for the grit sound. I used to be like yo, this needs to sound post-apocalyptic, futuristic. It needs to sound like 2055, and we’re in this poverty-driven world where there’s also flying cars and the fucking trains have moss and it’s damp, and these are the kind of conversations we had. It’s very raw, like forget what I’m saying. If you’ve ever played Crackdown, it’s like that; it’s futuristic, but everything’s fucked. 

Discussing the origins of the term ‘grit’, along with his inspirations and how the sound has evolved, nineteen97 explains:

97: I don’t even know how we got to that name because it’s not grime, the way I emcee I’ve learnt from grime, but sonically it can’t be grime and that’s fine because I’m proud that it’s a derivative of it. I was like, how can I build out this dance world that’s related to the ends, so I got my rap style and approach from Azealia Banks. I’ve always loved what she does to music. If I had to pinpoint names that I use as inspiration, I would say her [Azealia Banks] unapologetic authenticity on these different kinds of beats. Ice Kid, because even as a kid, he was so conscious of how he was feeling, regardless of whether it was on an Eskibeat or a set. Skepta, due to clarity, I think I learnt that from him, especially being from Coventry/Brum with an accent that a lot of Londoners don’t want to hear. Earl Sweatshirt, I think that’s the adult in me. This level of self-honesty and introspective nature is in the music. 

CGuk: You mention the accent and clarity, and that reminds me of the fact that we often forget that for many British artists, the United States is the promised land; they’re trying to make it big in America. Yet there’s this resistance from a lot of American listeners to British, mostly London rappers, which is similar to the resistance from London to artists who aren’t from the capital, so you’re essentially fighting two battles?

97: 1000% bro. It’s so different culturally, and where I’m from, I’ve almost been made to feel like an anomaly, my tastes and preferences weren’t the thing that everyone was into. As I got older and started going to London and meeting new people, I found a lot of people with mutual interests. But growing up, it wasn’t like that. That’s why on 'spareno1', I said "they think that I’m angry, but I’m just anti/ But you can blame Brum though, it’s just the surroundings that I grew up in"

CGuk: Touching on the grit sound again, '8quid' and 'certain people' really develop that sound, and the music is particularly minimal, and since 'spareno1' I’ve really had to tune my ears to the sound, especially the rumbling 808s and the drum-programming. When you mentioned grit, you sounded like a producer, so I assumed you produced it yourself...

97:  Off Key is who I started this stuff with, but one thing that helped me start making music is that he always got what was in my head. We’ve lived different lives but grew up with all the same references. Whereas George is the complete opposite, he was a supporter of my existing work and bro, he’s just a f*cking beast. He’s got that battery and is a couple of years younger, whereas I’m in my 'Old Man Logan' era. He’s listened to what I’ve already done, listening to these sounds and understanding that I want to push the boundaries. I remember showing him, Vince Staples’ Big Fish Theory –

CGuk: Sorry to interrupt, but I have to say, that’s one of my favourite projects–

97: One of the most underrated projects that has come out - literally, since I’ve started making music, I’ve pushed that project onto people. It’s crazy that it’s a US guy that allowed this to happen; that project says everything to me. I could take Vince’s voice off of 'Crabs in a Bucket' and rap over that myself. It’s f*cking crazy bro.

CGuk: It’s meant to be SOPHIE’s production, I think. So it’s interesting to hear that you ear-dropped that, I completely forgot to mention that to you because I definitely hear the parallels between 'CUDDABEENA*' and 'Big Fish Theory'.

97: That is like one of the biggest compliments to me (laughs).

CGuk: (Laughs) That’s the thing about music, you never mentioned Vince as any of the four inspirations for your style. But what are some of the albums that had an impact on you?

97: 'Big Fish Theory', I wasn’t making music when that album came out, but that album encompassed everything I wanted to hear. Especially at the time, I was very drawn to the US. I just didn’t feel at the time that the UK guys were really going for it. In terms of boundary pushing, but we’ve got guys like Jim Legxacy now. But I just remember hearing that 'Alyssa Interlude' with Amy Winehouse. All these sonics just evoked a feeling that was very British. It was just like someone from the Odd Future extended family tree. This project feels very British. Child-me was just f*cking gassed, so when I started to make music, I was just like, yeah, yeah, yeah..

I hope he gets his flowers one day man. So that’s project 1, and my biggest is probably 'Boy in Da Corner', to me Dizzie is like Nas. I think they peaked early, you know, like people say, you have your whole life to make your first album? I think that is the case with them; they got it all out in album one or two. And maybe as life got on, they got richer, there was a lot less to talk about. The first track on my project is like my version of 'Cut Em Off'. He’s introducing himself and his perspective: "My name is Raskit. Listen to my flow/I socialise in Hackney and Bow/I wear my trousers ridiculously low". The first bar I wrote when I touched mic was: "I’m still a work in progress, man, I gotta work with progress/ I’m a standup guy, no protest/ sleep deprived, I still thrive with no rest." It’s not a big fact file, but just a… this is what’s going on, at this point in my life, I’m just trying to better myself. I was still up in Coventry, and at the time, I’d never been to Bow; I didn’t know what those areas were like, but I knew! Just off what he said, I completely understood. I’m not going to say albums, but the way Skepta sets the precedent with his intros. Just pressing play for the first time and being immersed, it’s too inspirational for me man. I think the last one is Playboi Carti’s self-titled or Die Lit.

CGuk: That’s really left field because I’m a big, big Carti fan.

97: Let’s do 'self-titled' even though I think 'Die Lit' is better, because I was a big iLoveMakonnen fan, massive fan. These guys were popping in Atlanta on YouTube, and there was a label called Awful Records. I vividly remember finding the video for the song called 'Mercedes' and it had like 8,000 views. I was more so listening to Makonnen, Father and FATMANKEY, and this is why I love Skepta so much. When Skepta and Carti were collabing, I was like ‘what the fuck!’ Worlds are colliding. I remember always taking a liking to his nonchalant style, and he used to do some CURREN$Y sort of rap, so I knew he knew how to rap; this was just a creative choice. I always was just like this guy’s got it, and 'Broke Boi' came out and I was like, he’s gone man, he’s gone. I remember having the 'Magnolia' snippet for like a year and a half, didn’t even know what it was called. The song blew, and 'wokeuplikethis', and 'New Choppa', these songs just blew. I was like Bro! I’ve just watched someone for the past three years become this big f*cking deal. Then I pressed play on the project and 'Location'…  I was like this guy is f*cking out of here. It was kind of like the Tyler, the Creator thing, watching something so niché to you become one of the biggest things in the world. I gotta give it to 'self-titled'.

CGuk: You listen to this guy, you might not get it at first, but when you do get it. You’re like this guy is an artist for sure. He makes it seem like he doesn’t care or doesn’t know what he’s doing. But, he’s got the fans by the balls. (Laughs)

97: Deadass bro! He did a deluxe with a bunch of music that we already had music videos for, and nobody gave a f*ck! We were just so grateful to have these things on streaming with official audio. He’s out here uploading full music videos on Instagram burner pages,  and they’re getting ripped and loaded to YouTube, getting views! Carti’s different bro… 5th has got to be The Weeknd’s 'House of Balloons', I’ll be honest, I hate traditional R&B man. It’s all fake, people who like to spit on and beat up women talking about courting. But then, 'House of Balloons' is when R&B spoke to me. The subject matter and the way he’s just so honest about his experiences sound so realistic. There was nothing like it, and that honest R&B did a lot for a whole generation.

CGuk: I appreciate that. All of these albums, whether it’s the covers themselves or sonically, they all convey a greyish/black and white colour. Which is something I get from your music, even though grey has a negative connotation, it’s very textured, emotional, and there’s clarity from it. When I was listening to '8quid', you dropped a bar about wrestling, so I’d be interested to hear about any of your interests outside of music and how that may or may not have inspired your work.

97: It was a William Regal bar, and I’m a big wrestling fan. My favourite of all time is probably Rob Van Dam or Shawn Michaels, one of the two. I see myself as the Rob Van Dam of the Midlands.

CGuk: I’m a big RVD fan too! And could you expand on that?

97: I’ll be so transparent, I’m first at what I’m doing. There’s no other nineteen97 in the midlands. I learnt from Blue Room Mafia, but they were doing the Cloud Rap-inspired, casual and laidback that was the time in 2015/2016, you know. I took on from what they’ve done; I was always looking at what James Blake was doing with Trim. Their [Blue Room Mafia] last ever song was my first ever song, and I said to myself, I could do what I’m supposed to do, but there’s so much that I love, that I want to [put] into this. And I feel like when WWE purchased ECW, I feel like Rob Van Dam was the guy that the WWE looked at as ‘this is the guy who could really cross over’ and I feel like in my city and my scene, I get a lot of respect from mainstream artists that have done really well because they look at me like ‘f*ck man, you’re from ECW but you could do really well in the WWE, if you did X, Y, Z’. That’s why my headline show on the 2nd of October is called One Night Stand, because Rob Van Dam beat John Cena.

I feel like I’ve done songs with Window Kid, I’ve done songs with Manga, done songs with M1llionz, and The Streets. I’ve done songs with the mainstream, and I’ve held my own with my own integrity. I am Rob Van Dam. I’ve swung with John Cena, and I feel like I’ve won on my turf.

CGuk: I see that comparison with you because Electronic music brings out a different reaction to rapping, it’s seen more as artistic, high quality, and refined, as RVD’s wrestling was, but then also, the rapping and the grittiness and the tales that you’re talking about and the areas you’re coming from are more like ECW.

97: Yeah, yeah. That’s exactly how I see it, you’ve got it bang on. You can put me on Monday Night RAW and put on a masterclass, but I prefer to be in ECW, that’s my domain, and I’m very proud of that. When I said the 'CUDDABEENA*' bar at '1AM', a lot of the response to it was “what are you talking about? You already are a star”. Outside of music, I’ve achieved so much that I’m really proud of. I’m a lot of firsts in my family, I’ve shocked my own standards, not society’s standards. The whole pretence to 'CUDDABEENA*' is that we need to normalise being okay with not being number 1. That’s what I’m saying to myself, to me, being a star is not real. It’s a myth. I want people to go and achieve and express themselves, but be comfortable looking at what they’ve achieved. So many of our GOATs would go down a lot better if they learnt to bow out gracefully. I’ve done these shows, been on tour as support for CASiSDEAD, who’s one of my favourite UK rappers. I’ve done the things that Devanté cares about. I can look back and think 'what a run!'. I think I’m gonna use my platform to collaborate with people I really like; help support and grow what they do.

CGuk: There’s a lot of focus on mental health, with self-love and self-care, but it’s mostly on the compounding of trauma and negative experiences. But very rarely do we appreciate that we’re the first in our families to address these issues, lead a life pursuing our dreams, or even just patting ourselves on the back. There’s never that [positive] self-reflection.

97: Yeah man, f*cking clear. That’s what I’m saying, I talk to Mike and he tells me these crazy stories. He’s been an icon in this country for about 24 or 23 years, maybe. But me getting into music later on, trying at 23 and already having a child when I started making it, has given me a different kind of perspective, and remembering what life was like for me when my mum was younger, I’m f*cking out of here bro. I have to thank God and be very grateful for what I’ve got. If my music story is done, then just go on Spotify and scroll the f*ck down and see what we did in 4 years! From nothing, in a place where there’s no scene. This ain’t what man have got banging in their whips, and my target audience doesn’t look like me, which is sad because I make music for my people. But that’s just the reality, I’m not angry, I’m just anti (laughs). But it’s sick bro. We did this, and you should celebrate your accomplishments a lot more rather than beating yourself up about shortcomings or whatever.

CGuk: Yeah you should definitely pat yourself on the back, so what’s next?

97: We’ve been doing this Local Boyz sh*t, I don’t believe in gatekeeping, I’ve been sharing my teachings and things I’ve learnt the hard way. I say to them that being a musician is a bit of a disease; you don’t really do it to yourself. But they don’t really listen (laughs), so if you wanna go ahead, I don’t mind sharing my notes. I wanna work with developing the infrastructure, and I want to open up spaces for them to see their true selves and be able to reflect that creatively, so I’ve got seminars booked in. It’s with the Arts Council about understanding how to create and release music for aspiring artists, so they’ve got me doing a class on brand identity. 

I’ve watched so many great people who understand that your career isn’t a failure if you didn’t get to the top of the food chain. It’s just like me saying I’m the first and how hard it was for me, make it easier for other people, man. Allow people to see there are so many ways you can approach this thing, don’t look at the top of the charts. I’m always educating people on artists like Larry June and CURREN$Y, I don’t even listen to those guys, but he’s thriving, he [has community] and tours/shows. In a game where a lot of it is how it looks, perception, and I’m trying to ensure the people who are inspired by this nineteen97 sh*t keep going and don’t have to feel as alone as I did on this journey.

CGuk: Pay it forward, as they say, is one of the best things you can do for sure. (Laughs) I don’t have anything to add to that, I’m just impressed. That’s a great thing to take the initiative and also build a community. It’s a big buzzword now, ‘community’, right? But the reality is, do we actually do it?

97: I’ve done it man, like bro, literally. Local Boyz was the first non-Size?-owned brand to do a collaboration with them. The size? x Local Boyz tee, we made a hundred of those and gave them away for free to everyone who came to the popup at size?, in the store bro. I got paid racks to rap in my own city, in size?. I used to queue up before work and be in the line from 5:30AM, get the shoes at 8AM and dip down to my work. I got 'Local Boyz' tatted on my ribs, I got my own size? tee. I think that’s one thing I don’t like about the creative game, because you’re always doubting yourself, and you’re onto the next thing; you don’t just get to sit and just think and relish things. Like bro, what do you mean? I have a Hot Wheels car with my cover art. Physical! I’ve collab'd with size?, I’ve collab'd with The Streets! What, because I have 30,000 monthly listeners and not a million, this isn’t relevant? It f*cking is! It’s a big deal.  When you’re on go mode, sometimes you’ve just gotta fathom what you’ve done.

CGuk: That’s insane! A man said Hot Wheels (laughs)

97: Bro, everyone who comes to my crib tries to jack it. We made 13 and we really got to sell them for £19.97.

CGuk: Wow!

97: Yes bro, we did that. I brought Mike Skinner down to a club in Brum, with Wingstop, and the tickets were 97p. He’s pulled up for 97p! Brought M1llionz out with Clints, in Brum, free entry, and this is all 2024 onwards. I took a little bit of a break in 2023 for my own mental health and figuring things out, but I came back but I’m like, ‘yo, I’m going to build this community’. We’ve done so much bro, we’ve done so f*cking much. From when Mike Skinner took off his Streets tee off and put on the Local Boyz tee on and did the headline Rinse at Drumsheds, it’s been mad ever since. I’m just reminiscing myself. That’s why I’m so gassed, because I just want to rest like Thanos, bro. It’s definitely not my last battle, but it’s like the roundup for this portion of my career. 

Photography by. Ola Fisayo

The 6-track EP runs at a brief 13 minutes, but the depth of world-building and immersion renders the runtime irrelevant. An artist with a refined sense of contentment and clarity, 97 conjures up an iconoclastic project. A whirlwind of inspirations, the opener, 'a * is a myth' features that distinct idiolect over a drum pattern that seemingly stumbles over itself in an intoxicated manner. The crisp drum sounds are like icy glaciers crashing against the torrential 808s; the track showcases 97’s macaronic approach to production. The flow provokes a head-nod found in grime sets of old, and the FL Studio-reminiscent synths can be found on any Deep MEDI/Mala-inspired production from the late noughties. But it’s the songwriting and nakedness of lyricism that is arguably most visceral; 97’s transparency is just another side of the vulnerability shown throughout our 2 and a half hour conversation. 

As the country slowly free-falls into the grips of a far-right government, the collective anxiety tinges every human experience. This is most evident in 'do u right', the project’s closest offering of a traditional love song. The synths are piercing, like a heartbreaking text at the height of romantic euphoria, but here they are juxtaposed with a longing and yearning paired with a flawed honesty not of traditional R&B but possibly found in the Weeknd projects. Katus Myles’ vocals provide an illusory portrayal of this almost nihilistic love, perfectly diegetic in a world of grit. This project is arguably the manifesto of ’97’s grit sound, showcasing an alien world in which the sun never rises, as if the land is cursed. His sonic experiments are seen in their most refined and minimal forms, such as with the aforementioned opening track or the alembic works of 'in a dream' featuring Ella More and Biyi. 'certain people' features so few instruments but hardly any space to breathe, whilst nineteen97 skips overhead shouting out his group: "I don’t care about your isms and schisms, or your prewrittens/ local boys we’re the coldest in Britain". The sound bed feels unstable with a bassline that feels like it could give way at any time, as if it were a sonic sinkhole. 

This interview came at an interesting time of transition in my life, and throughout the conversation, I mentally noted many parallels. Conducted on the night before my aunt’s funeral, I was staying in Mitcham, a stone’s throw from my hometown of Tooting. As I walked through the unfamiliar streets in the dark of night, getting to know both nineteen97 and Devanté, his experiences, worldview, and exclusively presented EP seamlessly soundtracked my late-night wander through South West London, as he revealed his own constraints with his home at the precipice of the next stage in his own life.

Photography by. Ola Fisayo

CGuk: We spoke earlier about the passage you have to make from Brum to London and then London to the rest of the country, and I just wanted to hear about your opinion on the Brum music scene.

97: Yeah man, I’m going to be so brutally honest. There are artists like Kofi Stone who are forging [their way]. If we’re talking about emcees, I think we pick from the less progressive sides of grime. I think the less progressive sides of grime are those that are one-dimensional, where there’s no room to grow. 

CGuk: Is it the more traditional sides of grime?

97: I don’t think it’s because we’re not good or that we don’t have good stories to tell. The captain’s armband, the representation of the creative minds of Brum, I don’t think it’s been done justice by the people who have been at the forefront. I think they’re very talented people, and they’ve got good perspectives, and some of them have been really successful.

We’ve had so many moments, Skepta came to Brum, been recharged, and done features. M1llionz has done really well. Kofi Stone. I just think we pick inspiration from the wrong places. And I do think it’s because Birmingham grime is inspired by London grime, which is inspired by Garage, but it was also coming back to what we were saying about the US, Kano and Dizzie, that grime heritage; they’re talking about JAY-Z and Three 6 Mafia as inspirations. We’re talking about Crazy Titch, D Double E, and these people are incredible, but there aren’t many great grime projects, and I do think it’s due to reference points. So if we say that Dizzie, Kano and Skepta are the GOATs, I don’t even think Brum grime are inspired by any of those three. It feels to me that they’re inspired by the sick emcees who were on the radio. But how can your reference point not be linked to any iconic music? That’s where it fails, and that’s where I stick out, not because I’m better, or I have this amazing way with words, it’s just my reference points. It’s ‘Big Fish Theory’, I think that’s the issue, and I hope that changes man.

CGuk: It will do, and it really rings true with a lot of the artists you pick. They’re artists. Playboi Carti is not a hip-hop rapper; he’s an artist. Skepta too, I don’t think he’s the best emcee, but he’s probably the best British rap artist. As you were saying with his intros, he puts a lot of care into it, and usually, you can tell how good an album is going to be by the opening track, by the care and effort. So I hear what you’re saying, you’ve perfectly explained it to me, who’s an outsider and never quite knew it, why it didn’t reach the same heights as London rap and grime.

97: I wanna see that change, because I know there’s gotta be kids out there, like I don’t know what the equivalent to liking MF DOOM is if you’re 21, 22, I don’t know. I just hope for the sake of this place that I live in, and I love Brum, I love Coventry, but I love Brum and it’s come to adopt me, so I just hope we can get some real good representation.

CGuk: That’s also the case with Jamaica, Ghana.. I think they call it the ‘brain drain’. For better opportunities, you leave your place and go to other universities, music scenes, and creative scenes. You end up getting better, but your home is left behind, even though you had to leave there in the first place, it creates a stagnation. So, how does Birmingham change that, and how does this project help?

97: Great f*cking question. I think, Birmingham, we need to get out of this crabs in a barrel mentality. We’re so respected, there’s unity, and I was at a rave couple of weeks ago in Brum, and I saw Novelist come out of nowhere. When s*ck shit goes on, Skepta’s in the comments, we’re endorsed by the natives. But we really have to start championing each other. I’m good at differentiating Devanté and nineteen97, not just the people, but I think the artists that had a platform should have embraced nineteen97. Like before me, Blue Room Mafia, they’ve got songs with millions of streams, them man never signed a deal. They were a vibe, Soundcloud and vibes, and one song with Erick the Architect, they don’t have this extensive catalogue, but they were doing loads of stuff, and the main issue is they don’t get cemented in Birmingham history. They were the trailblazers, I think they were the first traditional big underground rap act. I remember their shows with VICE, with House of Pharaohs, New Balance campaigns, NTS. No management, it was just a group of forward-thinking friends.

Underground rap is seen as way more exciting than mainstream UK rap right now, because you don’t have to shoot mad videos, you don’t need buss-downs, like YT is a distributor’s dream; there’s no car rentals, there’s no fake life, don’t need a stylist, they wear their own clothes. I feel like a big canon event in London, was Lancey giving these guys co-signs, embracing that, then guys like Skepta validating that, then acts like ledbyher, and there’s this whole scene thriving because you got embraced.

CGuk: I remember a big thing on all the blogs at the time when there was this big West Coast concert, and Dr Dre, the Game, and Snoop were there and physically passed the torch onto Kendrick. So that’s like one of the things that Brum needs, right? 

97: Yeah man, because they do it to some degree. But they’re embracing people who do exactly what they do, so there’s no wider appeal. Like Mike Skinner is at a different stage in his life, embracing it and if we’re talking non-rock music, then 'A Grand Doesn’t Come For Free' is probably the best Birmingham album, in my opinion. So if he can take the time out of his busy life, whether it’s DJ'ing as Mike Skinner or doing full band stuff with The Streets, why can’t they f*cking see it? And that’s the Brum problem, and that’s why I wanna embrace people, everyone has their time. We’ve got a community, we’ve got a hub.

You’ve got groups like OFB who have more unity, same with the 67 guys. I don’t think I’ve seen K-Trap somewhere and not have Youngs Teflon with him. When Abra [Cadabra] was the guy, they’re gonna do the OFB remixes, Headie One is gonna do things to put Dezzie in the limelight. Community is important, and there was a time when Monkey was the most popular or Dimzy was the most popular. You’ve got to do that sh*t bro. There are no communities that are going to thrive by gatekeeping; we’ve got to share.  At my headline, I’ve got a friend with 53 listeners, he’s a good f*cking rapper, and he’s a warm-up act because this is going to help. He was like ‘Why are you doing this for me?’ Because Mike did the same for me, and what the f*ck did that even do for him?

CGuk: And once you’ve established that community thing and God’s grace, everything goes well. In the future, people will be just helping each other out, and they won’t be like, ‘Why are you helping me?’ It will be part of the culture, just to shine the light on someone. It will be just how we do it.

97: If I could change anything, it would be to embrace each other bro, and don’t be afraid and insecure about your position. If I give a guy a co-sign and he gets bigger than me, so what? That’s where he was supposed to go. That’s what The Streets’ stuff did for me, gave me a lot of perspective. It makes a big difference man - a little bit of motion makes a big difference. The main point I want to put out to a lot of the creative guys in the city is.. a lot of us have been failed by those before us, but we’ve got to do something about it. We can’t repeat the same patterns; someone has got to put a stop to it.